Hardship as training: lessons on grit.

Vincent Vu

0:00When you do physical training, you strengthen the body. But when do you take time to strengthen the mind? We don't think about that. That will give you a ability to overcome the different challenge. Whether that's break up in relationship, whether that's get a layoff from your job, whether that's overcome to restart again after you start coming and everything's falling apart. You need that mental strength. I encourage everyone, you should look at hardship as a way to train you to think. Don't fall into that victim mind, victim mentality. Look at the opportunity strengthen your mind. I would not be here today what I'm doing and what the thing I'm going to repeat without the hardship because to me those are lesson.

Quang Do

0:38Vincent for those who don't know you how do you usually introduce yourself.

Vincent Vu

0:43Yes. Well thank you for giving the opportunity to share. So I were born in Vietnam in 82, 1982, about an hour from here, Long An. And I and I remember when one day my mom, I were in first grade at the time. My mom decided to pull me out of class, not telling me anything where we're going. And next thing I know, I'm in a little canoe on the river carrying two jug of water at night. And then the canoe, small canoe, my me, I was seven, my brother was three and a half and my mom an early 20. Next thing we know, there's a big boat waiting for us outside. And here we are on the boat. My mom didn't tell me anything. So, and I we got there, there's a hund of people on the boat. And then I realized that we are going somewhere with this boat, fishing boat, wood, wooden boat. Okay, that meant to only carry might be 10 fishermanmen. Here we are. We have 165 people packing a little fishing boat like sardine. Okay. And the and then we were heading at night. We're heading down to the this big ocean not knowing where we go. And then in the morning now we are allowed to get up to the top of the boat to get some fresh air and my mom told us that we are going to a refugee camp.

2:01So here I am. I said okay here I guess where we going. Didn't know any better. Seven at the time. And then we spend days at sea just like many Vietnamese people who are you know left the country that time. It was scary to be honest with you because you know I never been in a boat before.

Quang Do

2:20How old were you? Nine.

Vincent Vu

2:22I was seven at the time. Seven. Seven. Seven at the time. And my brother we never in the boat but I remember vividly. There are a lot of people who were thrown up everywhere because you know they these are city people never been the boat before. Luckily me and my brother for some reason that we didn't get seasick at all but spending days at sea and next thing we know that we have a container ship from [unclear] that were fast passing by us and then we were waving and people were screaming and they decide to help us and I remember they brought on board they fed us and they took the oil from the boat that we have and they ram the and everybody begging them to take us back to where they are and but they couldn't legally they couldn't do that. They are commercial shipping container ship. They're not allowed to do that. So they brought up to a refugee camp in Malaysia. It were dark at 9:00 and the next thing we know there's 100 of us. 165 I still remember that number 165 people on the bus and we were bus they were taking us to a camp and they were at night and they have a lot of these police officer they all carry very heavy guns or weapons you will and everybody was so scared.

3:39Remember everybody were crying and they were saying hey you know they probably take to the woods in the forest and they shoot everybody nobody know about us but luckily I didn't do that they took to the camp and the camp were full already it's a lot of Vietnamese people who arrive at the same time they fed us they gave I still remember they gave a bag of rice and some fish in there and they say the next morning I said you know what you guys can't stay here you got to take on another boat so we got the camp full and then we took another boat they gave on the boat and we keep on going and I don't know exact time but and then we arrived at the camp that in that now this time belong to Indonesia we stayed there it's called Galang Island so that we end up staying there so that's where I spent about six year of my life oh wow spent six year there from schools there not so much school not so much school so speaking school is interesting during that time in refugee camp I spent six year 1990 to 1996 I didn't go to school didn't go to school the only thing that I did was study math. My mom pay some money. So to somebody to teach me math. That's the only thing I learned. They have math. I remember walk to school every day for miles for miles. Every Wednesday you they have a little center that when you come and basically they'll hand out food and canned food and rice and bean whatever.

4:59That's every Wednesday I remember. And for me as a child, as a kid, seven years old, I look forward to that. That's an something exciting. I can go and get some meet my friends and we will wait in line. So that was the moment every week I look forward to. Long story short we 1990 to 1996 finally they shut down the camp because you know the United Nation that point they didn't want to fund anymore because otherwise people have been escaping for the last 10 years since early 80. So they shut up the camp in 1996 we went back to Vietnam. So I stay in Vietnam between 1990 to 1996. Now it was a challenge for me because when I moved back here I couldn't integrate in school. I missed in completely I was both in middle school but I had first grade education in Vietnam and left and then I came back here I was struggle to fit in to be honest with you because first of all I couldn't adapt or integrate into the people who were my age at that point 13 years old at that time. It were difficult for me and then next thing I know as soon as I trying to adapt and next 1998 I immigrate to the US and now I have to readapt again.

6:16So my entire academic career if you want or I miss out the entire middle school when I moved to US we moved to a small city very small in the Midwest called [unclear], Iowa it's very foreign country not whole lot there but yeah that was it was difficult for me now I have to learn to adapt again so now I have to adapt to new culture I have to learn English ESLs a second language so I.

Quang Do

6:45Walk us through that move to US How did that came about and why that place in Iowa?

Vincent Vu

6:50Yeah. So, it's so funny thing that so part of part of the agreement that they asked my mom to do is my mom have to volunteer. They give they're going to shut up the camp. They say anybody who volunteer to go back voluntarily to go back Vietnam, you will give you a second opportunity to do an interview as at refugee and my mom did that. The funny thing is that I didn't share that there are three people in my mom family. Her older brother, my mom and her younger sister, they left different time. They are not the same refugee camp. It's crazy. And her older brother he did he only stay in the camp for two years and then he they gave him the approval if you will and then he left the US first but he moved to Iowa first. Okay. My mom will be the second. The reason why we go there because her brother were there. That's why we go to Iowa. Now the funny thing is my mom younger sister which is my aunt she decide to stay at the last minute and at the end of the day she passed that time frame that she need to go back and basically she stayed back finally they closed the camp but she moved back to Vietnam she still live in Vietnam so that's why we moved to Iowa because my uncle were there going back early you know a funny thing that when I immigrate to the US I have to adapt Again, you know, English were different for me.

8:10I have to learn English. Learning English now a lot easier than this 25, 27 years ago when I first got here. I have a giant book of dictionary. I remember I have to, you know, it was difficult by no mean. Speaking my name a little bit, my Vietnamese name is Thông. Thông is a beautiful name in Vietnamese but when you go in the US it mean different thing. So I will be making fun a lot of my name when even go to high school in the US. There were moment that now in retrospect I'm happy that I still be able to speak Vietnamese fluently. Even though I live in US I can't write anything. No writing Vietnamese but I can speak it. But that moment in my early day in the US people making fun of my name, Thông, is basically you know this woman underwear you know it's making fun of that and that moment that day that I come home from school the funny thing the people making fun of my name the most are the Vietnamese people not the American people really yes that the Vietnamese people who arrive before me you know that's that's something that I you know I find that you know and we talk about not being support of each other that's something that something about Vietnamese people that I didn't like.

9:27Rather than be supported, they alienate me. They saying, "Hey, this guy, the permanent usually FOB or fresh off the boat because now I don't speak English. I speak a lot of Vietnamese." But that was in the moment when I come home from school and I say, "Man, I wish I were born in the state. Then I wouldn't encounter this problem." You know, you can look at as a way of bullying. You want to look at that. But now I'm so happy that I wasn't born in the state because I still retain my heritage in Vietnamese even though I were trained and educate. I spend more time. I spent 27 years living in the US. But I still, you know, for me when I decide to come back here, this my root, man. This my home. Yellow skin, red blood, Vietnamese [unclear] something that I'm always carry with me. And I'm proud to show that and that's why I'm coming back here after 27 years. By no mean come back has been difficult. It wasn't easy, but it to me it is something bigger be able to come back here, reconnect with my heritage again, but I want my kid back here. I brought my kid back here last year for the first time. Both my kids born in the state and be able to show them this is this is your home. This is your root, man. This is where you coming from. So that were my story. So, in the US, went to high school there.

10:50Every summer in the US, I go to summer school because I need to catch up from English to catch up all the I missed an entire middle school. I remember my first job I work at the farm in the US. Iowa, I don't know if you've been in the US. Iowa is a farm country, farm state in the middle US, nothing except corn. You can see corn for miles and mile. And my first job in my ever in my life, I work at the farm. And after that first summer, so every morning is through a high school program. So the bus will pick us up at 5:00 in the morning. They take them to this farm which is acre and acre farm and corn. That's Iowa known for and then we were split into different group. Every group the team leader and you go down this corn probably I remember taller than me a little bit taller and we were tasked to pick up I call they called it a tassel. You pull that off to stimulate the growth and you do that and in the morning it's cold and by noon my gosh it the corn leaf it will cut you up and it's hot it burn it were brutal for me and I told myself Vincent you want to learn English you going to go to college but this is not you here to do this so that were my first experience my first job in my career I make I don't know two 300 bucks for two weeks that was a lot of money back then but for me it taught me a bigger lesson apart.

12:18And so did that. I went to high school and then I go back to high school. I always want to study business. You know why? Because my mom is a street vendor. So I've been watching her, you know, even though when we live in a refugee camp, my mom learned a skill set and then I sell them at night. My mom will make during the day at night we have a little cart just like the little cart you see in the street. Yes. That's what I do. I sell them at night. So being watching my mom all these year just like many Vietnamese woman when I see a lot of Vietnamese woman's when I come back Vietnam I see the whether they sell [unclear] or what they it remind me a lot of my mom used to do it growing up watching my mom that. So that that's that really at the beginning of you know my dabble into entrepreneurship. So long story short I right after college which I graduated from college in 2001. Now I only been in the state for three year. I always want to study business but my English was not in the business. It's not at the business level. So I put that dream back. I went on and study architecture. I love my father's in mechanic. My brother is my father have a mechanic. He fixed bikes. You know my brother's a good mechanic. For me for some reason that didn't attract me. So I couldn't fix a bike. So I couldn't do any of mechanic stuff.

13:39So I decided to get into architecture because I love I love the artistic because architecture is to me is a marriage between art and science. The science, which the structure, the mechanical, the electrical to make the building functional, comfortable, but the artistic which is the color, the expression, the texture, there's artistic side of it. So that's what draw me to architecture. And then even during high school, I had a job. I was a job. I was what I call a drafter. So basically I draw floor plan for houses for people as a as a part-time job to help me pay for my you know my the earn the money so I can go out to the movies buy my own clothes you know helping because my parent make a little money in the US. So yeah I went started architecture a little bit I got you know I graduate with a master's in architecture. And then after years of studying and getting to architecture 2008 I don't know you guys people remember 2008 the financial crisis in the US the housing crisis so I got a job I'm really excited after all these years and then my first layoff came in 2009 one year in yes one year in after all these years went through the camp went to college went to high school went through this and then it a big disappointment for me it was really that were to me that were my biggest setback in my life that I have to encounter with and but you know hey it is something that out my control is the market and I happen to study architecture I will work in some big multi-million dollar project and then one day the developers say you know we going to cancel the projects all that stuff so the company had to let go a lot of people but I were able to survive for nine months before my first layoff And after that I went bounce off back and forth start few company I in my profession I start total of five companies total and three of them died and I'll tell you the reason why they died.

15:41Yes. So left architecture went into design a little bit and went to engineering and that's where I went from design side do a lot of design side and then went to engineering and that's where that knowledge I gained because engineering you have to be focused on the precision the technical aspect of it that's where I learn a lot so I left architecture I work as an engineer for a domestic company where we work our client range from Nike Apple, Starbucks, we built everything. We design manufacturing. So I went from the design side, I went to manufacturing engineering. So I worked my way from a you know project engineer into director level. My last position I were leading a team about 25 engineer. I spent a lot of time and I worked my butt off for that. And I learned a lot along the way. And when I got to the director level, I look around in my exec team. So I spend I spend time between US, Mexico, Canada and China. So we have operation. So I leading about 25 engineering. My team responsible for develop the most cost effective way to build a product to make sure we make money. So I focus on the manufacturing the material the quality work with different supplier and that knowledge I never knew but that knowledge helped me to build Kinis later on.

17:05That's the foundation I learned start engineering and I remember vividly one day one of our CEO we hire new CEO he from the UK he came to my plant we have a plant in Richmond Virginia manufacturing I don't know we have about 500 employee and he came to a plan and I were part of the exec leadership team he gave a very inspiring like CEO level talk you know rally up there the leadership team and I find that very inspiring So that's the moment that I say you know I want to go beyond my technical skill set you know I want to get into management I want to be a to expand my role become maybe the VP of operations one day I I'm a CEO aspiring become a new CEO so that's where I decided to go back to school pursue my business ambition that I put aside many years ago so I decided to go back to grad school at night so working this you're looking 15 16 hour a day for me spent two years went back to school and got my MBA and along the way start few company and then when I got my MBA and that's where really how I start Kinis really after having failed three company before that which the reason why that the reason why zero product market fit and I'll talk more about that later but that my journey and then and the end of the day you know if you I am a problem solver at the end of the day I ask a lot of question I start with you know I'm very mission driven person I'm a I'm I can be very visionary from you know architect architecture taught me to be thinking a layer engineering taught me to be precision the technical and the entrepreneurship taught me to think to solve big problem to have the ambition and I think and at the end of the day, you know, I'm the type of person that always love to challenge status quo.

19:07I like I like to solve problem. I like solve problem that truly create impact for society, something bigger. So yeah, that's a little bit about me.

Quang Do

19:21Thank you for sharing. I love to tap into all of the bits and parts there, but maybe quickly for context for the listeners, you know, what is what is Kinis? What is the mission? What is the stage? Yeah. And how has it been?

Vincent Vu

19:33Yeah. So, yeah, Kinis AI, a pivot we did three years ago start from Kinis Barefoot. Why this why Kinis Barefoot? Well, going back to so when I was in school pursuing my MBA I was still working at the same time at director of engineering and my job is super stressful. So I got into running as a way to mitigate some of my stress and when I got running I hurt myself. I injured myself. When I injure myself, one of my good friend told me, you should check out the book born to run. The born to run was back in 2010. They talk about this author Chris McDougall wrote about the people in Mexico. They call the Tarahumara. So these Indian indigenous people live in a very remote region in Mexico where they can run for 50 plus mile with almost a sandal. And I read that book. I say that blew my mind. And here I am. I have $200 pair of Nike running shoes and I could not run two door two mile indoor. Okay. I say there's something wrong here. And I read that book. When I read that book that inspired me, it brought me back to my six year at the refugee camp which I didn't have or I didn't have any shoe. I would barefoot most my time and I play soccer all the time without shoe. And then here I am in the US with a expensive shoe and my feet are kind of falling apart.

20:52So that really that gave me the you know and all the solution when I go to store and everyone say oh you need this orthotic you need this and I say no I don't need that and for me being a hardhead person you know and I decide to do a lot of research into it I dive deep in science that's where I study about foot anatomy biomechanics I read a lot of book I talked with a lot of folks after all the research I came to conclusion the reason why my feet falling apart because the shoe my the shoe actually hindered my feet ability to move naturally. So that when I decided to start a company, a shoe business, Kinis Barefoot and now I don't know anything about shoes. So I bought a lot of books about shoe design, shoe manufacturing. And the beauty for me at that time that I have to give is leveraging my background architect. I know how to design le my background as a director of engineering. I know how manufactur work. So I knew I knew the basic principle behind manufacturing. So I leveraged that and then the other piece is the shoe specifically. I need to learn a lot of that and that's where I start to call a lot of people. I bought book I listen to I watch YouTube video and that's how I start. So the premise behind Kinis Barefoot were the idea that design shoe that promote natural movement back to the basic we our low our slogan at the time a stronger body start with stronger feet because the feet are the foundation that affect the whole up change of the body.

22:24So we start that company and at the beginning it was just a one of my project for my design thinking class. Okay. And then that evolved into because it's a problem. So I applied design thinking by customer discovery you know the whole process and then that eventually turned into a business. So we launched that company in 2018, raised some money with some investor, local investor. Quit my job, which is scary. And then went to China, I built out the business. My gosh, long story. When I travel to China, I basically from Shanghai, I meet every single supplier from Shanghai to Yiwu to Dongguan to Shenzhen. Every single supplier I meet, I didn't have money to hire anybody. So I left as what I do. But I still remember I will create multiple email account with different title. When people ask me, you know, when you go in China business, nobody want to make a oneoff prototype. You come up with a 10,000 pair order. That's what the Kai business. But for me, I didn't have any of that. I didn't have any team. So I have to create this team that imagine team that eight or 10 people. What we're trying to do now the other challenge that we have to say that people either mess or s what we trying to do is something in between. So that even more challenging. So yeah, long story short, starting that and then basically by the way it reminds me a lot of Phil Knight's shoe dog.

23:46Shoe dog. If you I read that book when he went to Tokyo and the metal deal that exactly that what I did before I left before I left for China. Basically I were calling in the I calling every single sock supplier. It took me three months and finally and in the US where I live, I live about two hour south of Washington DC and then North Carolina, South Carolina used to be a textile region in the US before everything moved to the textile produced there in the US before everything moved to China. So I call I look for I call a lot of sock supply there. I called him three months finally one guy picked up his name is Brian Mayo company called Mayo Knitting. I told Brian, I need to help you to make a sock. And I explained to him what I'm trying to do. I went to art and craft store. I make this low resolution prototype of what this supposed to look like. I described to him. He said, "Vincent, I have no idea what you call talking about. You come down, you pay me $300, $500, I'll make you a prototype socks." And that's where I learned about different yarn, different sock. I le the supply to teach me. I know enough to ask the question. So, and then he made me a bunch of socks. Oh my god, it's long story. Then I end up buying a machine, put my garage.

25:05It's a printing machine that I can apply the rubber coating. So, this is me solve a problem. Before I went to China, I bought a printing machine. I flew to San San Diego, meet this company. They make the machine that used to make for printing. You print logo on the shirt. I say what if we change the frame that I can instead of the square rectangle if we can design something that look like shape the shoe I can roll the sock into that and we apply the coating which in rubber coating at that point it's an experimentation I don't know what I don't know but that way it did I spent $20,000 bought the machine custom made install on my garage I bought the sock from Brian, Mayo Knitting company we brand and I will figure out how many unit I can produce in my garage. I did that in my garage. I have a air compressor setup. I ran that. Every time I make a pair, I run to the gym. I give to the trainer to try. I did that for three month. I learned a lot. I have to call a rubber company testing different material, test the different socks. It taught me so much about that. And one thing and after three month of failing and I decided, you know, this not going to work. I end up selling machine back for $12,000.

26:24So I lost $8,000. I took that money. I raised some money from a local angel investor. He invest $50,000 for the company. Took that money, went to China. Before I went to China, I found a material Honeywell is a American company. They make a lot of different product. They have a division called the high performance material division. I researched I found a product called Spectra. Spectra in material that they make that mainly used in military application because the first product we are we are making is a barefoot sock it's a hybrid between shoe and sock but you can you cannot use polyester outside because it's not going to last so we need something that lasts longer so before I left I went and luckily a Honeywell have a plant which about 40 minutes from my house I went down I met the plant manager I said hey you have this material called spectra is 15 times stronger than steel pound for pound. So you think Kevlar spectra is even stronger. They used to make a bullet vest for police officer to show how strong the material. So I told them and next thing I know I flew to Shanghai. I met with Honeywell team in Shanghai. Went there 3,000 employee there. They assign me the engineer. I work engineer and then they make material for us. Then I found another sock supplier in Yiwu.

27:41I call them I explain what to do. I say we have no idea. Send the material. I were working I was in school to still do finish my MBA working fulltime as director of engineering trying to get this off the ground running. So I will sleep with my phone next to me at night because you know because the time zones are different so I have to work. So long story short it was a journey for me. Took me a while when work I there's there sock supplier there rubber supplier there package supplier in Shenzhen we work in Guangdong in Dongguan where is the main supplier so I visit every single one of them I got lost many time when I'm in China I get mugged by the taxi when I was Shanghai I was my phone being held hostage because I left my phone in the taxi the taxi driver don't want to give it back he want me to give him money it's a long story short but I had some great you know along the way I have some great people and we still welcome them today some of the supply that we I built back in 2018 19.

Quang Do

28:47What was the moment very fascinating what was the moment when you felt this is working you know was your conviction always very high from the beginning or was there a lot of doubt.

Vincent Vu

28:59Well you always have doubt you know because you do something new haven't done before so the doubt is always there but I think the conviction for me at the end of the day the product helped me personally because I am the problem start with me I have an injury I have to solve we develop a product and for me it helped me because I think this help me. There are people who have similar problem, but they're not being presented a solution. We presented with a quick fix solution. What I'm looking for is a long-term sustainable solution. So that was, you know, so we have three product. We launched three product in the market. Two, our product get medical approval. Two of our shoes get medical approval from the American Podiatrist Association. So at the beginning Kinis itself and even the name Kinis derived from the word kinesiology. When you think of Nike, well, Nike is from the god of victory. But when we started Kinis, we root deep into understand human movement. So that's why we named the company Kinis. And we have three products we selling for last couple year. Most our customer US and Europe based because this language still very new when come to we do have ship our product to Hong Kong and Singapore. But and then three years ago we decided to pivot the company from a minimal footwear company into a digital health company.

30:15Why did we do that? Well, we have a lot of feedback really driven by from our customer. We have a lot customer buying now our walking shoe called the Lucy and we have a lot keep getting a lot of people asking us especially older population do you have any shoe that help me make my balance better and I'm keep getting one day at lunch I decided let me look into that and where and then I start taking the research and then I start I learned that my god falling the leading cause of death among the elderly in the US the US spend $80 billion every year 40,000 people die every year from falling And when you look at the solution for the last 30 years there haven't been a very sustainable solution and we want to fix that and that's where we decide that hey there's an opportunity that we have the technology and that's what the beginning of you know ChatGPT and AI so I'm saying you know I said yeah there's an opportunity what if we can the question become at that point what instead of treating the fall what if we can predict that so the we change from reactive because right now you wait for a falling then you treat Well, that's not that's unsustainable. So, and that that's where we start to pose the question. Can we do that? And that's where we decide to pivot the company to Kinis AI leveraging sensor technology, leveraging the power of artificial intelligence that we can shift from now instead of waiting to some of the falling we can predict that weeks and months ahead of time.

31:39So, we can step in to put an early intervention.

Quang Do

31:44So, tell me about the products.

Vincent Vu

31:46The products Yeah. So we pivot to Kinis AI. So this Kinis AI is a digital health company. Our we develop a movement intelligence platform. What we are going to do is we want to provide a tool that an early balance screening technology that mean our target customer are people over age 50. Why that? Well, all the research we're looking at balance human as human our balance decline after age 50 and every year after that as your balance clear declining your fall is going up. So what we want to do would be shifting instead of waiting until you fall which is currently the way we wait till somebody experience the fall you go through surgery and you go to PT you fix a palent well that's a very backward thinking we want to shift that we want to make sure balance accessible so by doing so we position our product early screening technology so that mean next time you go to your primary care doctor your physical therapist maybe your gym our tool within five minutes we we have a tool that we've been developed for the last two year that we can give you a very comprehensive clinical quality balance assessment. By doing so, we can identify your balance deficiency and then the next step what we're going to do, we're going to help prescribe the type exercise that you can do whether in the clinic and at home and then we can improve your balance before you wait too late.

33:10So that's one product. The second product we have is we call the KinisStep is a gait analysis tool. That's a smart ankle band you wear around your ankle. Why your ankle? Well, all the research we're looking at most your wearable devices you wear on your wrist, your ring that give you very just an upper body analytic, but where lower body there's a lot of black. There's a lot unknown and the KinisStep designed to do that. It can give you a comprehensive gait analysis. So, KinisStep will give you a gait score. The BalancePro give you a balance score. We are the first company that really marry the two data sets together that give you a movement score. What with a movement score what we can do we can predict your fall risk weeks and month ahead at the time. The other thing that we'll look into a movement age you know you might hear people I walk like 85 years old or I walk like I'm 45 but I move like a 35. The movement age the next level that we developing that we can tell people hey if you are 65 chronological year you are 65 but you move like 45. We can quantify that. That's the that's the future development of us as a company. The other thing that we doing is that within our movement intelligence platform we are bridging the gap between clinic and home. We call the closed loop system the hybrid care model because the challenge that we see in the market that yeah you go to clinic you spend time with your clinician your doctor but really the improvement actually at home but our platform allow that bridge between clinic at home the exercise designed to do at home but now you have the whether the patient know the patient have access they have the patient portal connect the clinician portal the data flow seamlessly between the two.

Quang Do

34:56Amazing I love to learn more about like your life and thinking as well. Yeah. You walked us through your life. There seems to be a lot of challenges, hardship, things you overcame, you know, farm, camp, learning English, starting over, no middle school. Thinking back, you know, what do you think was the hardest of it all?

Vincent Vu

35:17The hardest is always really the mindset to be honest with you because we human, we tend to have the tendency that we are train we are wired to run away from problem because human Yeah, go back to the early you know you look at it you know we are hunter gatherer we we try to protect oursel by run away from any dangers around us but I think for me growing up didn't have a whole lot for me when I when I arrived in the US to me people are dying you know still people are trying to if I were given an opportunity I wanted to be to push myself how far I can go the hardship taught me a lesson it's really for me looking I encourage everyone you should you should look at hardship as a way to train you to think rather than to sit back and say feel sorry for yourself don't fall into that victim mind victim mentality look at opportunity to strengthen your mind whether physically or mentally for me I would not be here today what I'm doing and what the thing I will do future without the hardship because to me those are lesson that hits you it's callus the mind and one of the reason why I always say for me I ask myself you should always try to do something extremely different one a year set yourself I ran a barefoot marathon barefoot marathon barefoot marathon and why would I do that so let take back because that really that's really we talk about the mindset to me it's really a mindset the way you how you.

Quang Do

36:51Barefoot marathon is on the streets?

Vincent Vu

36:52Yes I'll talk about that yes took me six that street right there I ran in Austin, Texas 6 and a half hour and I tell you why I do that. So I started a shoe business because I have a foot injury that led me to start shoe company not know anything about shoe but I have a problem and solve let's go back that's why I'm a problem solver. I always think myself problem solver and then you know after I regain strength I decide to run a barefoot marathon. There two way I want to prove that human body are designed to function this way. I want to prove that my feet are strong. I don't need all the I ran that the two the two purpose the wonderful thing I ran a marathon because I want to raise money too for the Afghan refugee because I'm a refugee myself when you know so and the other thing I wanted to really to take that opportunity to prove myself do I have what it can I go beyond the physical pain can I can I take that you know as an opportunity to callus my mind we think about I do a about physical training. When you do physical training, you strengthen the body. Yes. But when do you have the to strengthen the mind? We don't think about that because you need that. That's where you that will give you your ability to overcome the different challenge.

38:12Whether that break up in the relationship, whether that get a layoff from your job, whether that's you know overcome to restart again after you start coming and everything's falling apart. You need that mental strength. And for me six it took me six and a half hour to finish that at some point you know for me when you think marathon and by the way for me the longest distance I ever ran were five kilometer when I told my friend I say one of my friend he's running coach so for me I'm also an athlete I do a lot Spartan race obstacle course racing 39 years old still running and I told my I told my his name is Dex I said Dex I'm gonna he's a running coach and he trained people run I I'm going to run a marathon and he I asked him what the average training time for somebody who never run that this he said you know you need about six month and I look at him in the eye and say I have six week and I'm going to run it barefoot then he say you are crazy and I said I do that and I did it took me six week and I trained and I did I didn't know I have the capacity going to this I didn't know that I can do it but I pushed you because again it's it really strengthened the Would I ever do it again? Probably not. But I prove that I have that mental capacity because at some point it's no longer the body the body will tell you quit.

39:30Why would you do that? It hurt. It's stupid. But really at the point is really the mind have to overcome.

Quang Do

39:41How painful was it to?

Vincent Vu

39:43Oh, very painful. I wouldn't recommend that for anybody unless that's something you want to challenge yourself. You that's why I think it's really that for me is the opportunity to challenge my mind for what I'm doing now because to me the problem solving now there's bigger problem waiting for me so that mindset ultimately the ability to to look at look at setback you look at failure differently it's the mindset than anything else because to me every failure is a is a you are testing the assumption okay you make the decision Whether that whether that for your profession career for your team or for your product whatever it may be you make the assumption and then ultimately whether success what does success tell you tell you that your assumptions are correct if you fail that mean okay well then what did I learn from that your assumption incorrect some point whether that whether the data was incorrect your intuition wasn't right whatever that whatever maybe but one way or another you get something out of that.

Quang Do

40:48How do you get into this mindset of overcoming problems and going straight into it. Like you said, we humans, you know, hunter gatherers, we default to safety, to comfort. For someone who is starting out, you know, how did you become a problem?

Vincent Vu

41:06Well, I think you have you have to start with curiosity. That's one thing human which you we don't talk about that now a lot these days because we have the right artificial intelligence. The one thing that human we still have left in our control. Curiosity. When you have curiosity that mean that something that excite you that you want to learn more, you want to solve. So by having that mindset to me this is the beginning and I always encourage people when you are first of all try both thing try everything you know you look at you know you look at you know I don't know you look at one of the biggest failure in Amazon Jeff Bezos make the phone the phone were the Fire Phone was the biggest failure but to them it's an experimentation the willing the audacity because thinking innovate thinking doesn't cost any thinking doesn't cost any money that if that the case then dream big dream that's something of human we possess curiosity that's something that we possess we should tap into that so by to in order to get to that next level to look at to overcome what you're saying the setback I should that mean you start with bold thinking try that expand that fail you should I encourage everyone should suffer should you know what which I agree what Jensen Huang what he talking about you have to suffer because I think that where you can find that you truly who you are that's where you can you look at that as opportunities to you know pull back a little bit and ask yourself do I have what it takes what did I learn from how can I because to me sometime we look at success and then if you are do something big something innovative and you tell me that you never failed before then I'm start questioning me are you taking big enough risk are you making the right decision are you still want to play it safe I think the you know you look at all successful people that are breakthrough technology are the people fail the most but no failure didn't stop them from dreaming bigger solve bigger problem.

Quang Do

43:19I love that tell us about your journey to Vietnam you touched on now connecting moving more towards Vietnam tell us about that journey now.

Vincent Vu

43:28Yeah. Well, I think I think my journey back to Vietnam, you know, I have to say, you know, at some point at the beginning I was experienced the identity crisis. Am I American? Am I Vietnamese? But to me, that really doesn't matter. But to me, coming back to Vietnam, you know, at the end of the day, I love the culture. I love my heritage. And I think, you know, I think I'm very lucky. And then you know the biggest loss in my life that would be I don't know how to speak my language anymore the Vietnamese language you know sometime when I go out I you know especially nowaday I most of the time I communicate especially with young I communicate in English because I want them to learn English that's how I learn the best way to learn English is speak yes not to write about it so for me and then they realize that I speak Vietnamese and I told them I live 27 year I can speak to yes of course why would I forget this my this my birthplace this my cultural heritage. So so to me looking back the biggest loss in my life is that I would not be able to learn I know how no longer be able to speak my own language but I'm very lucky to do that. So coming back here to me personally for me I want to give back and.

Quang Do

44:45What does it mean come back? You you still live in the US right but you plan to set up a team here. You have a team here.

Vincent Vu

44:52Yes. Yes I do. I do have a team here. So I'm very happy. We have a team here which opened office a couple months ago. We have a team. We have about eight people working for us now. And I am envision that you know out next year as we scale up the operation as you know we're looking to enter Vietnam market as well to serve Vietnamese community. Yeah I'm looking to spend half 50 my time between US and Vietnam and be able to for me one you one thing I love to do is I love to teach. You know I teach you something for me people think teaching for me is a way for me escape from all the all the craziness running a startup a high pro startup teaching for me to share I tend to share about my failure a lot through my teaching and I I love to give an a way for me to you know teaching for me is a way to get back you know I think I were very fortunate when I start my company in US I have some of the best mentor that I could have asked for they have given me unconditionally taught me to guide me to where I'm today and for me as a way for to say thank you to my mentors for me I want to continue that be to give back as much as possible.

Quang Do

46:02From your journey with building your business you know what are some of those lessons you're realizing you know in hindsight.

Vincent Vu

46:07Well you know I think hindsight to me the biggest thing would be not knowing is probably the most powerful thing that you can possess inexperience is the power when we think of startup when we think of business generally speaking we think oh you have to have experience. I agree. But the beginning you don't need that because for me starting a shoe business and then went because I didn't know about shoe. So I came with a very different mindset. I came from the consumer perspective. Okay. I don't have the preconceived notion. Okay. And then I when I start to start Kinis AI, I don't I'm not a software. I never start software company before. I never dabble into HIPAA compliant or science technology. I never you know I have some basic but not knowing allow me to look at the problem from a very different perspective. So inexperience is a power. It's not a weakness. But at some point you need to write find the right people, plug them in. But the beginning at the beginning it's just you have to be able to say what is the problem I want to solving. How do I quantify this problem? You have to look for qualitative and quantitative and why would I do that? So have a sense of purpose. The why is important to me.

Quang Do

47:19How would you advise someone who's just starting out, inexperienced, you know, consumer perspective, wants to start a business?

Vincent Vu

47:26Well, at the end of the day, you know, I I'm not I don't recommend just my mind. I don't recommend you go out write a business plan or none of that because all that doesn't make sense. What I recommended, you have to start with the purpose, why you do what you do. Start with why. Simon Sinek. Start with the why first. Yeah. When you have to know the why then you feel the what the how and the when you have to start why something you have to really truly passionate about something I always start with the purpose you don't need the experience you don't need that in the beginning if you truly have something that truly mean to you that you are willing to invest time don't do it for the money don't start a company because you want to make a lot of money I will tell you that you can start 10 years starting a company not know make any money So that's why the purpose the why because at some point you will encounter so many problem whether product failure whether market zero product market fit whether that not be to raise money whether that you have problem with your co-founder whatever it may be they will happen it will happen nothing if you start a company going everything goes smooth I'm questioning that that you're doing something ba innovative now but I think when so My my recommendation your why your purpose have to be bigger than your problem because the problem will happen along the way your part in your journey.

48:51If some point you count the problem and you ask your why is not big enough you're not going to be overcome the problems. Yeah. That's where you quit. Persistent persevering patient purpose. Those are the things you should take in consideration. And curiosity. Yeah. You gota and you got to love what you do because it'll take years and years and you have to willing to sacrifice or what and that's why it's all come down to that purposes for us. We are very mission-driven company. Yeah. And I think that s you have a very mission-driven with what you do with the overseas community. And that's why we want to align the work that I do whether from the partnership perspective or the people I want to I want to align people with the align my the mission my purpose.

Quang Do

49:41What has building Kinis taught you about yourself?

Vincent Vu

49:47A lot. Well you know no I'm a man with many flaws. I'm ego is big and that need to change and I as I learn to step in my new role I learned that sometime I can be you know which going back to my engineer I can be very get hand on everything I need to be able to learn how to delegate trust people more that's something I've learned I have high temper I demand a lot because you need to if you're not the first you have to be the best you cannot mediocre incremental engine not going to do it for me. So you have a high set high standard for me. Sometime I find myself that you know I expect a lot from people and I think that's something that I need to you know I think everybody operate at different speed you know I operate as very high speed. I learned that I need to work on my emotional intelligence as a leader. That's something that's my weakness and I'm working on that.

Quang Do

50:50Yeah. What do you think, you know, what's the gap? What is your emotional intelligence now? And where do you want to get?

Vincent Vu

50:57Well, I want I want to get to the point that I want to be able to empathize with people more. You know, I'm very technical or very business driven. So, I have a high demand. And I think I think I want to pay culture where people feel like that they work with a people a leader that can empathize with them beyond just a magic number because I'm very laser focused I driven drive demand a lot and you need that but I think I need to find a balance somehow because this at a culture that you operate at velocity imagine drive a car and you drive 100 mile per hour every single day it will break some point. Yeah. So that's something for me that I need to learn how to that I have to be able to fling like be like water. Water can be soft and can be very powerful at the same time. Yeah. The metaphor. Water can cut to rock, but it can be very soft and relaxing. So, find that balance, you know. I think where to be soft, where to be hard. And I think some right now I'm still navigating learn to do that.

Quang Do

52:05I resonate with that a lot actually. I think I'm also at a similar stage where in the beginning it's very brute force. You need to make a vision reality. So you need to move fast. You need to be very persistent. And at some point once you scale, you know, you move also into more a people manager, right? And you have more moving parts. And your role actually shifts to not just executing but also managing, right? And it's very similar to me. So I'm actually also adjusting from more a operator to actually now you know moving perhaps one level up and having that human layer as well and it's important.

Vincent Vu

52:42Yeah. And I think I think that you know at we in the leadership perspective and I think we have to create an environment that you know I think empathy with people because I think it would drive would drive just metric and this high velocities you create burnout for you as a leader and also create can create a very toxic environment. Yeah. People are your greatest assets in the company and we want to make sure that people feel value and that they want to come to work for leader that can really empathize with them. That's important. Without the people, you don't have a company.

Quang Do

53:18What what's a belief or philosophy about business or entrepreneurship that you change your mind on throughout your journey?

Vincent Vu

53:26For me personally is it you know this is this is the greater time to be alive. This is the time that we can we have a different kind of intelligent. We're the first time that we can actually go to the moon. We're the first time we explore this the universe. This is the first time that we're human and machine integrate. We are evolving as species. How we evolve now and then this is exciting time to be alive to be honest with you. For me, I want to be able to see the opportunity that there are so many problem on a global scale and you know start if you look at the start of the beginning of the industrial evol revolution to where we are today. We create a lot of you know you know we eradicate a lot of diseases but at the same time do throughout that industrial revolution we also create a lot of damage to the environment society we have mental health we have a lot of chronic diseases but I think for the first time I think we are for me personally with the industry we're in we like to call the medicine 3.0 Well, it's not about treating, it's about prevention. The technology to me is an enabler for us to get there.

54:42And I think it's an exciting time. Yeah. For me, the biggest thing is just stay hungry, stay curious.

Quang Do

54:49You mentioned off camera as well that it's a great time to be Vietnamese and to be closer to Vietnam as well. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

Vincent Vu

54:56Yeah, I mean, like I say, I this is my home. This I love Vietnamese food, the best food. I love it and that's some something that I enjoy. I think Vietnam you know when I look at you know what happening macro you look at it from the macroeconomic perspective present a lot of opportunity you know yes it might not have the most robust system yes it might not have all the infrastructure like many other country but at the same time it present a lot of opportunities for people who come back here to solve the problem for us six months ago we didn't think that we'll enter the market but now in 3 months from now we enter the market. We serve a solution because when we look at you know we have 100 million people we have an aging society we have undeveloped healthcare system so there's a need for us to go because we cannot continue to build hospital it's insufficient okay so technology is where the enabler that we make these tool accessible for people serve more people as affordable price so for us you know that is present a challenge but we look it as an opportunity for us and I think if we can we hope that with the work that we do at Kinis AI hope to inspire many other company can do the same thing. So if you are thinking about start up a digital health company, you're not sure what to do, come talk to me.

56:13We're happy to share with you. I want us to think big. You know, that's the thing that I want to come to Vietnam. When I look at startup ecosystem, we got to go, we got to think global, start local, but think global. And how we going to do that? And we, you know, if you're not sure and what to do, reach out to us. We'll share with you. I will share with you everything I want to share with you. You want to enter US market. I'll share with you what HIPAA compliant look like. What are the infrastructure you need to put in play but that is difficult very extreme. We spend ton and ton tremendous amount of resource to set up infrastructure. That's why we run pilot in both the US and Vietnam same time.

Quang Do

56:59I love it. We you know there's this core message that I'm actually personally tell taking away from this conversation is run towards problems you know and Vietnam is exactly that. There there's problems but problem is you know a problem but also a opportunity and if you see it from that lens and you are able to solve it and you're able to you know embrace it with curiosity.

Vincent Vu

57:20Yeah that's where a lot of opportunity lies. Correct. Correct. Problem you get it's going back to this mindset when you flip the mindset every problem become opportunity. The bigger the problem, the more opportunity, the more exciting to think novel idea to challenge status quo. Ask the question. I say ask the most basic why has to be done this way? Is there another way looking at it? So there's a couple of thing I share in my business class. I say if you want to start a company, there's a couple thing you need to do. You need to know your customer. Okay? You need to be able to do a fair comprehens research quantifying qualitative and quantitative who your customer what their pain point you need competition you need to do more in your market if you do a good job of those three things now you can start a company we have the tendency you know going back to my early career I failed three companies and then looking back I start company because I didn't know my customer there's zero mark product market that if anybody now day when I teach business I If you start company and you fail say and if you fail because there's zero product when somebody say zero product that mean you don't know your customer enough you don't know your market you don't know your competition you need to know so those are the thing that I always ask people you know don't worry about solution fall in love with the problem I say that fall in love with the problem but that's where you need to spend your time I don't care about solution I want to know about your problem and how can you quantify to me that's a real problem not something that you and your team think of but show it to me that this is a true problem.

58:56This is the pain point. There two way you can create painkiller or you can create vitamin. I go for the painkiller. People can live without vitamin but people cannot live without painkiller. Go for the big problem.

Quang Do

59:13This reminds me of something I also say it's fall in love with the game. It's not fall in love with the problem. It's a It's a bit different, but it's I have a small run club and we we're going to run a marathon as well.

Vincent Vu

59:26Oh, fantastic.

Quang Do

59:27I'm a good runner. I've ran all my life because I played soccer in Germany when I grew up there.

Vincent Vu

59:32Oh, fantastic.

Quang Do

59:33But I run with Vietnamese people and they don't not so used to running in Vietnam and so I actually train them. And it gets very hard in the last kilometers. Yeah. And I always tell them, you know, it's never going to, you know, you're never going to not suffer. That's how running is. It's basically suffering and it's boring and it's running is difficult.

Vincent Vu

59:50I tell you running is difficult.

Quang Do

59:52And I just tell them the only way there is to fall in love with it. Yes. No, flip it. You know, don't see this as suffering. See this as the end of itself.

Vincent Vu

1:00:00Oh, I love that. I love that. I love the because to me to me the last few mile were the most exciting thing but the hardest as well. The hardest but it's exciting. So if you like if you change the mindset of trying to avoid that say look forward to the last two miles because really that truly where the exciting part happening.

Quang Do

1:00:18Yeah. And I think it applies to the problem approach that you you shared that you know there's a problem we always see problems as negatives right but flip your mindset it's actually the positive because if there's a problem people don't go into it. People don't try to solve it because we default to comfort. Right? If you're the person that actually embraces problem, it's such a competitive edge. It's such a competitive advantage.

Vincent Vu

1:00:42It's a mindset. It's a mindset. That mindset you can apply whether your profession career and your personal life. We are human. I mean life will throw if you embrace problem as something opportunity to solve something big then you should you should be able to overcome all the challenges because people pay you because you solve a problem. You solve a big problem. That's why people reward you for that.

Quang Do

1:01:06Yeah. Yeah. It's really the mindset. Yes. Yes. Business problem, sports. I have a third one that I'm thinking about right now while we talk. It's actually relationships. Yeah. And there's the saying that, you know, there is a hard conversation that you need to have for a better relationship, right? And it's a similar thing where we often run away from hard conversations that actually have to be made, right? And it goes back to this point of, you know, we always avoid problems, we always avoid suffering, we always avoid the hard things. It's the same with relationship and conversations, right? Often you should have the hard transparent conversation. So that just ties back to this point again and I think it's a great takeaway for conversation.

Vincent Vu

1:01:47Correct, because the problem if you avoid a problem never go away. It's always there. You can ignore but you can you it's always in the background and that problem if you ignore long enough when it come to the point if you're not solve it it's get to the point you're not going to solve it then not be no longer be able to solve it in relationship I have my own problem my relationship you know so my current girlfriend you know we have problem but we talk about we look at from the systematically we we're not afraid to have a tough conversation but I think if we start avoiding that we mask that feeling well it get to the point that you can no longer fix the problem. So now you have to be able to be able to look each other in the eye and say this is a problem and now we're going to commit to solve this problem about this. And I think and then it it train you and it's equip you with the same type of you know mindset when you solve problem don't avoid difficult conversation because to me it's not going away become uglier later on. I rather do it now and fix it. I'm very, you know, I'm I love problem, but I always approach from a very solution mindset. I told my team when [expletive] go wrong. Sorry for the language. Let's let's not point a finger. We need to re reround our mind. We let's solve the problem. Solve come up with solution and we deal the problem later and then we understanding do analysis.

1:03:06Why did we make that decision and what did we learn from that decision that got here today?

Quang Do

1:03:15I love that. Thinking about long term 10 20 years from now you know very far mh what kind of impact do you want to have had.

Vincent Vu

1:03:24Okay I'm going to break this in two part number one that we want to envision that for us as a company the work that we do with Kinis AI our mission is we want to make preventive care accessible because we believe preventive care are a human right now preventive care doesn't It's only for a small group of people. If you look at Vietnam, how many people have the money to prevent care? So for us as a company, a big mission in the world, we want to as a company, we want to get to the point that we want with our technology, with the product we develop, we want to make preventive care accessible on a global scale. Yeah, that's the first thing for me personally. I want to be able to inspire the next generation of thinker, problem solver that are mission-driven and on top of that I want to be able to teach and give back as much as possible. 30 year 40 years of knowledge I want to give it all back. I don't want to take any of that with me. And I feel like you know and if I can do that to me what success look like. To the personal level and the business level because I believe that preventive care is a human right now is the way I work right now is very is for a small group of people.

1:04:48And we want to make that happen with what we do.

Quang Do

1:04:51Here's a difficult question for you before we wrap up. You know, if you could go back talk to your younger Vincent, younger self just starting out say 18 years old, you know, what would you tell him?

Vincent Vu

1:05:04I would tell him that have fun, enjoy. But start sooner than later. The younger you start, you first of all, you don't have the burden of family of commitment. If you make a mistake, that's okay. You know, that's what Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak did. They didn't have anything to lose, but they have a mission. When Steve decided to go again, challenge IBM. Yeah. So have fun, enjoy your life, enjoy your 18 years old life. Do what 18 year old but also have ambition. Start sooner. Look at problem to solve and start thinking systematically. Start to learn. Learning never stop. Learning is never too early to learn. Technologies is a tool enabler. You don't need you don't need to go to college. Now for us for a company we don't we don't require college degree. So have fun, enjoy, but also start planning. It's okay to have fun, but it's not okay just continue to have fun. Not plan. So think big, think big. Thinking big doesn't cost you the money. Dream big, but start planning sooner than later.

Quang Do

1:06:18What are you most excited about now?

Vincent Vu

1:06:21Well, ex you know to me excited amount that we have a product that truly have profound impact in people life. Nothing make me more exciting than seeing our their client our patient say you at least saved my life that can spend more time with my family my kid that's what make life meaningful. Yes, we as a business we have to generate revenue but there's something more than that and we you know excited soon that we can we have different idea that how we're going to give back what excite to me that when we have a team that I can deploy different the team that go to remote region whether that in LA whether that in [unclear] small city that we can have people access to our tool serving the local people showing people that right now not being served What excite me that when the next time we launch a charity mission in South Africa that we can serve the local people don't have access to tool we bring the technology to them so that's what excite us that's what drive us every single day.

Quang Do

1:07:28A man with a mission I love that.

Vincent Vu

1:07:30It's you know that's life that's what life meaningful that's why go back to purpose you know I I'm very fortunate they for me when I look back for the last 27 year when I first arrived they are challenging But at the end of the day I were given the opportunity that many people are dream of and I want to take for me be able to see this opportunity be able to whether inspire to give back as much as possible. So that's me.

Quang Do

1:07:56I enjoy talking learning from you. You know, let's do this again once you've launched in Vietnam and to have a followup in one two years or so and you know ideally Kinis and you have widely succeeded in Vietnam. How can people follow your work and connect with you?

Vincent Vu

1:08:11Yeah so thank you. Thank you, Quang, for the opportunity. I really enjoy this. For me it's it really personal to me and I think this is the first time I was given up to share my story and our journey not just me but our journey as a company and the work that my team are doing and you know for me I want to share something that yes I may be the person to start but where we go from how success is a lot of people behind me that doing the work. So, I want to give credit to those people and these are talented Vietnamese people hardworking every single day to make this mission possible. Yes, you guys can follow us on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn and we can kind yeah, expect the next year is going to be will be everywhere. We look to save 100 million of Vietnamese people. This is the beginning for us and really that really that to me when I think about that that's exciting.

Quang Do

1:09:08Awesome. Thank you so much, Vincent. Thank you so much. Pleasure, my friend.